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Logic and Separation of Church and State

I’m pretty sure we don’t often think clearly, which is why we should be laboring to teach our kids logic.

Of course, logic is all about making sense of things.  Yesterday I ran across this article on the separation of church and state.

Logic_and_The_Separation_of_Church_and_State

It was written by an atheist (who, I think, has English as a second language).  He also has a nazi emblem…don’t know what all that means…just trying to learn.

Nonetheless, the thought was really nice (I didn’t read many of the comments)…essentially he is saying that imposing the absence of religious symbols is the imposition of Atheism.

I think it’s a nice point.

Why not talk this through as a family and see what you can learn?

God bless,

 

Fred Lybrand

Six Reasons Young Christians Leave Church…Is Barna Wrong here?

httpv://youtu.be/164a8a5hQdE
 I’m not doubting the Barna research, but the conclusions seem pretty mistaken

I recently discussed this survey conducted by the infamous Barna research organization.  All of friends responded with saying, “Sad.”  Next, they each (it varied) shared the ‘saddest’ part.

Here’s what I wrote:

It is interesting, and perhaps sad. Let me indulge you in a few of my thoughts I’ve pondered after I sent the email.

The Barna Survey as mentioned in Leadership Magazine says:

Isolationism. One-fourth of 18- to 29-year-olds say church demonizes everything outside church, including the music, movies, culture, and technology that define their generation.

Shallowness. One-third call church boring, about one-fourth say faith is irrelevant and Bible teaching is unclear. One-fifth say God is absent from their church experience.

Anti-science. Up to one-third say the church is out of step on scientific developments and debate.

Sex. The church is perceived as simplistic and judgmental. For a fifth or more, a “just say no” philosophy is insufficient in a techno-porno world. Young Christian singles are as sexually active as their non-churched friends, and many say they feel judged.

Exclusivity. Three in 10 young people feel the church is too exclusive in this pluralistic and multi-cultural age. And the same number feel forced to choose between their faith and their friends.

Doubters. The church is not a safe place to express doubts say over one-third of young people, and one-fourth have serious doubts they’d like to discuss.

I’ve pondered it a little, and find the assumption the Barna Group seems to have is that “if we do it right, everyone will love Christianity / Church.”

Is that really true? When I survey the Bible, God seems to rebuke the generation itself (not the parents). Falsehood and worldliness are big issues that

no one seems to address (when is a church worldly…at what point?).

Then, there is the nature of statistics. If we invert the emphasis (in red), the picture changes.

Isolationism. One-fourth of 18- to 29-year-olds say church demonizes everything outside church, including the music, movies, culture, and technology that define their generation.

Three-Fourths think church is right to challenge (demonize?) music, movies, culture, etc., that ‘define their generation’.

Shallowness. One-third call church boring, about one-fourth say faith is irrelevant and Bible teaching is unclear. One-fifth say God is absent from their church experience.

Two-Thirds think church is not boring, and about Three-Fourths say faith is relevant and the teaching is clear. Four-Fifths say God is in their church experience.

Anti-science. Up to one-third say the church is out of step on scientific developments and debate.

Up to Two-Thirds say the church is in step (up on) scientific developments and debate.

Sex. The church is perceived as simplistic and judgmental. For a fifth or more, a “just say no” philosophy is insufficient in a techno-porno world. Young Christian singles are as sexually active as their non-churched friends, and many say they feel judged.

For Four-Fifths a “just say no” philosophy is sufficient for a techno porno world.

Young Christian singles who are having sex like their non-churched friends feel like others think it is wrong for them to do so.

Exclusivity. Three in 10 young people feel the church is too exclusive in this pluralistic and multi-cultural age. And the same number feel forced to choose between their faith and their friends.

70% of young people feel the church is open to others in this pluralistic and multi-cultural age. And, the same 70% do not feel they have to choose between their faith and their friends.

Doubters. The church is not a safe place to express doubts say over one-third of young people, and one-fourth have serious doubts they’d like to discuss.

Two-Thirds of young people feel the church is a safe place to express doubts, and Three-Fourths have no serious doubts they’d like to discuss.

This says the ‘way majority’ of young people actually feel really good about church / Christianity.

But, the problem remains (I’m assuming it’s true), that 60% leave church (though that is only about 15% off from those who don’t like what the church is doing). Barna seems to suggest that the reason people (kids) leave church is because the church isn’t matching their (kids) expectations. I’m wondering how many young people we could expect to remain in the church if we really did everything just right…surely some number would bail out in pursuit of the world, other religions, drugs, etc. (nothing to do with the church).

When I look at the Bible and ask, “Why don’t more people attend / commit to church?” The answers I see blame the people for their sin (especially the leaders who lead into sin), and say they will be the ones judged for ‘forsaking the assembling of themselves together, etc.’

You know, I think of the dozens of kids I’ve know who have gone away from church for awhile, but who are doing so awesome now…I really think the story is about their own hearts and their own walks with God. The church (and the family) was there, but this kids (drugs, babies out of wedlock, jail, foolishness) didn’t want it at the time…in a real sense, we’ve all watched them ‘come back’ to a spiritual environment that could be a part of their ‘healing’…watching God work all things together for good :-


At any rate, just wanted to throw some thoughts out there. I have more!

I’d love to hear from you,

Fred